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20Product: How AI Changes Product Design | Does the Design Phase...

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC)

Full Title

20Product: How AI Changes Product Design | Does the Design Phase Become Irrelevant in a World of Vibe Coding | The Five Pillars of Truly Great Product Design with Carl Rivera, Chief Design Officer at Shopify

Summary

This episode explores how AI is transforming product design and the overall company structure. Carl Rivera of Shopify discusses the evolution of design, the impact of AI on creation and organizational roles, and the importance of long-term vision and craftsmanship in product development.

Key Points

  • The founding of Ticktail involved a bold, unconventional launch strategy, which taught the founders to trust their instincts and take risks, contrasting with modern lean startup methodologies.
  • There are differing philosophies on product development, with some advocating for rapid iteration and others for more considered, high-quality builds, especially for foundational e-commerce primitives.
  • In the AI era, the focus is shifting from marketing-first approaches to building products with high conviction and end-to-end cared-for experiences.
  • Shopify operates as a collection of many businesses, allowing for diverse approaches to product development ranging from lean iteration to long-term foundational builds.
  • Deliberate design friction can be beneficial, but poorly implemented design can hinder utility and user experience.
  • AI is expected to bifurcate product quality, leading to both more "shit products" and more magical, ambitious experiences.
  • Incumbents are generally favored in the AI landscape due to existing distribution channels and consumer network effects, though their ability to leverage these assets varies.
  • The future organizational structure will be more fluid, with designers taking on broader roles that span across user journeys and multiple teams.
  • AI is enabling "vibe coding," where design is increasingly constructed and iterated upon using code and AI tools, potentially shifting Figma's role from the initial step to a final refinement stage.
  • Productivity gains from AI tools like Cursor are significant, particularly in the richness of conversations and explorations, which is expected to translate into more ambitious products.
  • Future product development will likely see a shift towards generalists rather than specialists, with job compression leading to fewer, broader roles.
  • Product managers will continue to exist, likely acting more as orchestrators, focusing on aligning teams and ensuring collaboration rather than being the sole "CEO of the product."
  • The most impactful AI revenue streams are likely to come from core foundation models that offer broad capabilities and own distribution, potentially displacing niche AI startups.
  • Long-term thinking and a commitment to craftsmanship are crucial for building impactful products and companies, a principle exemplified by Shopify's approach.
  • The transition from managed environments to platforms requires a willingness to relinquish some design control and embrace a more decentralized creation process.
  • The future of design may involve designers focusing more on foundational design systems and components rather than individual surface elements, enabling broader creation.
  • Centralized design teams can be more effective by focusing on cross-functional user journeys rather than being siloed within specific product areas.
  • The trend of "closing doors" by making firm decisions, like choosing a permanent home, can be valuable for focus and reduces background noise.
  • Building strong relationships requires sustained effort and work, a concept often overlooked in the pursuit of finding a "special someone."
  • Rigorous phone deprivation before sleep is identified as a key life hack for improving sleep quality.
  • The concept of "Law of Jante" (Jantelagen) in Scandinavian culture, which discourages individual exceptionalism, is contrasted with the value of deep craftsmanship.

Conclusion

The integration of AI into product design and development is not making the design phase irrelevant but is fundamentally changing its execution and focus.

Companies and individuals should embrace continuous learning, adapt to new tools, and focus on the quality of their work amidst rapid technological change.

Embracing long-term vision, craftsmanship, and a willingness to take calculated risks are crucial for building impactful and sustainable products and organizations.

Discussion Topics

  • How do you balance the drive for rapid iteration with the need for high-quality, enduring product design in the age of AI?
  • What are the most significant shifts you anticipate in product team structures and roles as AI becomes more integrated into the development process?
  • Given the increasing capabilities of AI, how can designers and product creators ensure their work remains uniquely valuable and innovative, rather than becoming homogenous?

Key Terms

GMV (Gross Merchandise Volume)
The total value of merchandise sold over a given period, before deducting fees, returns, or costs.
MVP (Minimum Viable Product)
A version of a new product which allows a team to collect the maximum amount of validated learning about customers with the least effort.
KYC (Know Your Customer)
A mandatory process for businesses to verify the identity of their clients, often required for financial services.
AI (Artificial Intelligence)
The simulation of human intelligence processes by machines, especially computer systems.
PR (Pull Request)
A mechanism in software development where a developer proposes changes to a codebase for review and potential integration by others.
OSS (Open Source Software)
Software with source code that anyone can inspect, modify, and enhance.
IDE (Integrated Development Environment)
A software application that provides comprehensive facilities to computer programmers for software development.
Vibe Coding
An emergent term referring to designing or creating through AI prompts and iterative refinement, often with less emphasis on pixel-perfect initial design.
Polaris
Shopify's design system, providing reusable components and guidelines for building consistent user experiences.

Timeline

00:02:57

The origin of the name "Oliver Davids" and its significance to Carl's early career in entrepreneurship and photography.

00:05:16

The founding story of Ticktail, emphasizing its unconventional, build-first approach contrary to lean startup principles.

00:06:38

A discussion on whether naivete and ambition are gifts or curses in product development from a category perspective.

00:07:39

The debate between shipping early and fast versus waiting for a more perfect product reveal.

00:08:48

Rory O'Driscoll's perspective on winning in AI by prioritizing attention and then building.

00:09:55

Shopify's approach to being "highly opinionated" as a large organization with diverse teams.

00:11:17

Carl's reflections on where Shopify might have been opinionated and wrong in its product development.

00:12:09

Addressing the conflict between a merchant's interests and the platform's role as a consumer companion.

00:13:40

Shopify's unique positioning as a "mall" rather than a marketplace.

00:14:19

The structure of product teams within Shopify, given its scale and diverse areas.

00:15:45

Carl's interpretation of Shopify's "unapologetically top-down" organizational approach.

00:17:01

Points of disagreement between Carl and Shopify founder Toby.

00:17:37

The impact of transitioning from a managed environment to a platform and ecosystem on design control.

00:18:09

How Carl's view on "good design" has evolved over time.

00:19:14

The perceived homogeneity in design and the potential for creative hallucination.

00:20:38

The concept of design going counter-utility and whether deliberate friction is acceptable.

00:21:13

Instances where Shopify might have "tried too hard" on design and lessons learned.

00:22:11

The critical lesson from a failed marketplace attempt: Shopify is a mall, not a marketplace.

00:23:50

The impact of AI on product quality and the potential for increased "shit products" versus magical experiences.

00:24:27

Concerns about product discovery becoming challenging due to market saturation.

00:25:57

The argument that AI favors incumbents more than startups.

00:26:47

Whether incumbents are structured to effectively leverage their inherent advantages.

00:28:34

Carl's agreement and analysis of Toby's product instincts and leadership.

00:30:20

The singular skill that makes Toby a multi-hundred billion dollar founder.

00:31:02

How AI changes organizational structures, particularly within design.

00:32:38

The effectiveness and feasibility of centralized design teams in an AI-first world.

00:33:44

Areas where designers are perceived to waste time currently and in the future.

00:35:14

The emergence of "vibe designing" and its impact on the initial design phase.

00:36:43

Shopify's approach to mandated tools and the prevalence of Cursor.

00:37:21

The price sensitivity and productivity gains associated with AI tools like Cursor.

00:38:34

What product processes today might be viewed as "crazy" in five years.

00:39:41

The challenge of being stuck in a modality versus the fluid, multi-modal way humans naturally work.

00:40:14

The effectiveness of remote versus in-person collaboration for product and design teams.

00:41:07

Carl's hypothetical approach to starting a new company regarding location and work model.

00:43:56

The most significant door Carl regrets closing and what he would do if he wasn't scared.

00:44:42

Carl's personal journey of transitioning from a public persona to working more quietly and re-emerging.

00:46:48

How not being motivated by money changes the approach to building products.

00:47:54

The role of Toby in fostering a culture that encourages long-term thinking.

00:48:17

Shopify's unique product review cadence and the lessons learned from them.

00:50:40

Common pitfalls in product reviews and why they fall short.

00:51:08

Products Carl regrets letting run for too long and should have shut down sooner.

00:54:43

The importance of viewing all problems as people problems and the benefit of team reshuffling.

00:55:43

Roles within product organizations that may disappear due to AI and automation.

00:57:15

The evolving role of Product Managers in a more generalized skill environment.

00:58:42

The part of Carl's role he dislikes most but continues to do.

00:59:51

Assessing the sustainability of revenues from AI applications.

01:00:13

Carl's outlook on AI: it's here to stay but also in a hype cycle, suggesting a correction is possible.

01:01:36

The advice to have a second child sooner rather than later.

01:03:51

The most important advice on partner selection: recognizing relationships require hard work.

01:05:40

The most recent significant life hack: stringent phone discipline and a structured evening routine.

01:07:51

Why Nordic countries excel at design compared to others.

01:09:05

Carl's current focus on putting himself back out there to advocate for his vision of design's future.

Episode Details

Podcast
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC)
Episode
20Product: How AI Changes Product Design | Does the Design Phase Become Irrelevant in a World of Vibe Coding | The Five Pillars of Truly Great Product Design with Carl Rivera, Chief Design Officer at Shopify
Published
November 14, 2025